Addiction Helped Me Cope Until It Didn't | Recovery x APN

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Recovery x Dan

Addiction Helped Me Cope Until It Didn’t

This transcript is from Episode 1 of Recovery x APN – Addiction Helped Me Cope Until It Didn’t: Recovery x Dan. New episodes of Recovery x APN air on Thursdays. Subscribe on Spotify, YouTube, and Apple Podcasts.

Meet Dan and Andy

Dan Brody: Can I get like a … you know what I mean?

Andy Silvagni: Three, two, one, pal. Let’s go.

Dan Brody: Welcome to Recovery APN. My name is Dan and I’m joined by my cohost, Andy.

Andy Silvagni: Hey buddy, how are you?

Dan Brody: I’m doing well. Before we get into today’s episode, I figured we’d introduce ourselves and then give some background about today’s episode.

Andy Silvagni: All right. So, I am Andy. I am our alumni director here at All Points North Lodge. I’ve worked at All Points Lodge since 2019. I’ve had the opportunity to see it grow from 10 clients to at 70 now, where we have detox and just this beautiful campus that offers different modalities. And just seeing people recover from 2019 till now, it’s been awesome and I’m just excited to be on the show with you, Dan, and get this thing going.

Dan Brody: Yeah. Absolutely. And to get some information about myself, I’m fortunate enough to be on Andy’s team, the alumni team here at APN. I was fortunate enough also to be a client at APN. So, it’s going to be my privilege to be one of the cohosts on this podcast to talk about the alumni program, but also talk to other alumni that had the experience that I had at the lodge.

Andy Silvagni: Absolutely. I think the best part about working in the alumni program is we get to see these success stories and the hope that that recovery can bring and people come in broken and beaten and we see them after they’re here doing the deep work and we see their lives put together.

So, we’re lucky and grateful to have this job and have to witness the growth in our alumni. And I’m excited to do this podcast and talk to our alumni and see where they’re at and see what they’ve learned. And doing this with you on the journey knowing where you were at and seeing where you’re at now, it’s just been inspirational.

Dan Brody: Yeah. When I think of this podcast and I kind of think back to my experience at APN, I think my goal and the vision I have for it is to provide guidance, hope, any expertise, my experience that I had-

Andy Silvagni: Absolutely…

Dan Brody: … as well as the alumni that will be joining us, for them to come share their stories, whether it was before they were at the lodge, their experience at the lodge, and then what their life has become afterwards. And to give the individuals that are currently at the lodge now seeking treatment and giving them the ability to listen-

Andy Silvagni: Absolutely.

Dan Brody: … is very unique. I don’t think a lot of treatment centers out there can do that.

Andy Silvagni: No, no, I agree, I agree. And it is a unique one we have today, interviewing you and getting to hear your story and what got you here and just your journey to recovery and to have balance in mental health and substance abuse recovery is again, let’s go buckle up. I’m ready to hear it, pal. You know what I mean? Let’s do it.

The Beginning: Before Addiction

Dan Brody: Yeah. I’m definitely excited to share and like I said, obviously, what I’m going to share is my experience. It’s not necessarily everyone’s experience. And I just hope someone who listens to this can take a small piece of it to help their journey. And so, I want to just say that ahead of time that this is what’s helped me, this is where it’s gotten me thus far. And the clients listening at the lodge now or anyone listening outside the lodge, I’m here to provide any level of support based off my experience.

Andy Silvagni: Well, I say we jump into this, pal. I think we were talking today earlier with one of the clients too about when we’re ready, when am I ready? A lot of people have many attempts at recovery and at rehabs you hear stories. I’ve been to seven rehabs or some people get it on the first try and what makes that person ready? What helps in that surrender aspect? So, I’m super pumped to hear, well, I’m not super pumped, but I’m definitely interested to hear-

Dan Brody: To hear my demise.

Andy Silvagni: Yeah. What did those dark days look like? Because life is not going great and someone says, “Hey, you know what? I want to go out to Colorado to All points North Lodge, because life, I’m just killing it.” Usually they want to work on something, they’re getting their butt kicked, something’s not going to plan. So, I want to hear what got you to come out here and have the journey started.

I think it goes back quite some time. I don’t think it just happened overnight. Fortunately and unfortunately, I say unfortunately because that’s how I felt back then. But in my household, I had a lot of family in recovery. So, I knew about what recovery was. My dad is 18 years sober now. My brother has multiple years sober. And so, I was aware of it. And I didn’t look down upon it, but I also knew that that’s the life I didn’t want to live.

And growing up, I had a great family, all supportive and loving family, and I was a big athlete. Drugs and alcohol weren’t really part of my story at that point. As I progressed through high school and decided I wasn’t going to play football in college, there was a void I needed to fill. I ended up going to Syracuse and at that time, I was a student, but academics wasn’t a main priority for me. So, being a social person I am, I got into the social events that kids do in college, whether it be drinking, frat parties, this, that.

Andy Silvagni: With the bros. I’m with the bros. Yeah.

Dan Brody: And so, I come to realize a big social experience was just smoking ton of weed, doing drugs, drinking. And I noticed that doing those things, it allowed me to feel comfortable in my own skin. I didn’t have football, I didn’t have basketball, I didn’t have something I was doing, I didn’t have a goal every day to get better in. And so, the drugs fulfilled that for me, that drinking fulfilled that for me. And it just became so common. It became every single day getting fuck up, getting high, getting drunk. And that was fulfilling for me because it allowed me to feel confident in myself.

Andy Silvagni: Absolutely. The drugs and alcohol, they work. They do exactly what they’re supposed to do. You know what I mean? So, when people say that, it’s like, “Hey, drugs and alcohol, for me and for you weren’t my problem. They were my answer to life. It’s like they let me breathe for the first time,” kind of deal. And I definitely get what you’re saying.

Dan Brody: To your point, it gave me purpose again. I lost that purpose when I decided I wasn’t going to play football. And then I was kind of lost. And in that loss for someone who is confident, I became very shy, anxious person because I didn’t know what my purpose was at that point. And then at 19 years old, that’s when my run started. And it was like everything under the sun. And I wouldn’t say it stopped me from doing things. In my head at that point, it allowed me to do things. But as I progressed through life, I graduated college in four years, did well in college.

Right after college, I got a great job. And kind of going back to my family, I was fortunate enough where my dad had always had a great career and he was always a level of inspiration to me about how he took care of his family, worked very hard. And so, I always wanted to do that. And going back to my competitive nature, that was a goal. That was my next goal. Make as much money as possible, because that’s the most important thing to do.

Andy Silvagni: You had the checklist.

Dan Brody: It’s like, what does everyone want to do? Have millions of dollars in the bank. So, I was like, “All right, that’s my goal.” And it went from, again, at 16 years old, being having a healthy environment, a healthy schedule, to now I am 22, 23 years old, living in Manhattan and working 14, 15-hour days because in my head, that’s what I’m supposed to do.

Andy Silvagni: Supposed to do.

Dan Brody: And then when I get back to my apartment, how do I cool off because I’m so anxious from work? Oh, I deserve to take a Xanax. I deserve to take a painkiller. I worked hard today. I closed this deal and it just progressed. And obviously, the social life still continued where I was going out and partying with friends, clubs, bars, this, that, because that was what you’re supposed to do.

Andy Silvagni: Normal 25-year-old guy in New York City.

Dan Brody: Yeah. And so, that continued for a long period of time. And I justified a lot of my actions because I had people doing it with me.

Andy Silvagni: And you had a successful job?

Dan Brody: Right. And I was going to work. I was waking up at 6:00 AM every morning, working out before, never late to work, always on time, doing well, succeeding, making money, and then going out with friends that are doing the same thing as me. But I think what was different was as we got older, they were able to stop. They saw that this was not a healthy activity to be doing.

Andy Silvagni: Well, they went on to their next checklist, “Hey, let’s get married, let’s buy a house, let’s start a family.” And you stayed in Manhattan, that lifestyle.

Dan Brody: Yeah. And I think that I would look at it as priorities. They had priorities. My priorities were still getting fucked up and numbing and making money. It wasn’t relationships. It wasn’t family. It wasn’t being of service.

Andy Silvagni: How can I get banged up?

Dan Brody: It was just like, how could I be a selfish puck and make myself happy and rich.

Andy Silvagni: I get it.

Dan Brody: At the end of the day. And I think as I progressed, that’s when my addiction really picked up. Because I was getting older and putting more pressure on myself to be successful. Okay. I’m 28 years old now. I should be making this amount of money. I’m 29 now, potentially having a kid soon, I got to hit this money. So, I got to work harder. And then when you work harder, you party harder. And then it’s like now the drug use got so bad that I was doing it by myself because I was just embarrassed because I didn’t want anyone to call me out because I kind of wanted to continue to do it.

Stuff Hits the Fan

Andy Silvagni: You know what I hear and I can relate to is in the beginning at Syracuse, the drugs gave you permission to talk to the girl, to go here and do that. Now at 29 or 30, it’s to numb. So, I don’t feel it. I want to see reality. And that’s the drugs and alcohol, that’s the magic in it. And that’s also, it’s like a boomerang they say. It looks beautiful going out, but it’s going to come back and cut me up. And that’s kind of where you’re at and I get it.

Dan Brody: No, it was interesting. And I think I was able to mask a lot of the drug use and drinking. I was a very, very selfish, selfish brother, boyfriend at times, friend at times, son, grandson. Life was about me. I’ll give you an example. My family would have dinner in the city and I’d be like, “Oh well, I’ll just skip it.” And it wasn’t because I was too fucked up to go. It was just like, “Eh, it doesn’t fit my busy schedule.”

Andy Silvagni: In your busy schedule.

Dan Brody: That I’m doing. But I think what had progressed is a lot of the relationships that I built, because I had great friends, they started catching on, where it was like, I would be high at unnecessary times. I remember a time at a Super Bowl when I had pills in my pocket and I dropped one in the bathroom.

Andy Silvagni: Dropped one.

Dan Brody: And I was searching the bathroom.

Andy Silvagni: Dropped one.

Dan Brody: And I was like, I need this. Not because I was going to get caught, because I needed the fix.

Andy Silvagni: Yeah, no, I understand.

Dan Brody: And I was like, I couldn’t find it. And then all of a sudden, I left. And I was like, all right, whatever. The next day I get calls from three of my friends, “Oh, you have a drug problem.” I’m like, “What the fuck are you talking about?” And they were like, “Dude, we found the pills. It was yours.” And I was like, fuck.

Andy Silvagni: Rookie.

Dan Brody: But as things progressed and going into what brought me to APN, I just wanted to give everyone a background, kind of my drug use. But at 30, I think it was pretty apparent to my family and friends.

Andy Silvagni: There’s a problem here.

Dan Brody: And the crazy part about it, I was still justifying it because I was doing well at work. And that was in my head, I knew what I was doing drug-wise and also from my actions to other people being selfish. Because I never stole, or that’s not true. I definitely stole money from my parents, but I never harmed anyone. Oh, that’s false.

Andy Silvagni: Well, for me, I agree. I never stole from anybody that would turn me in or anybody that would kick my ass. I would steal from family, friends, people that I knew was a soft landing.

Dan Brody: Correct. That’s what I meant.

Andy Silvagni: I was too scared to go to the next turn.

Dan Brody: Right. Because in my head, it wasn’t stealing. And I still think that.

Andy Silvagni: I’ll pay you back. Yeah.

Dan Brody: It’s like my parents’ money is my money, vice versa.

Andy Silvagni: We call that entitlement. I’m not a therapist, but some might call it that.

Dan Brody: Yeah. So, I think what was troubling for me is that I saw the success I was having, even with relationships with women or with friends that I was able to mask. Also, my family, I was able to hide is that I didn’t see how bad it was. And so, I think initially when I was confronted, I was like, I went around the room, “Fuck you, fuck you, fuck you. Who do you think you are?” I saw with friends too at an intervention. “I saw you blowing coke. I don’t see me yelling at you.” This person, I’m like, “Get out of here, man. That’s not true.” But I just didn’t want to look myself in the mirror and accept I had a problem because I thought I was all good based off of the money I was making.

Andy Silvagni: Right. You weren’t at that surrender point yet.

Dan Brody: No, and I wasn’t willing. I didn’t see it. And the weird part is that I had experience seeing it. My dad got sober at 16. I was there for the whole thing. And it didn’t hit me in the face. So, anyway, so progressing. And I had interventions with friends, family, and I wasn’t willing, man. I didn’t want to get sober. But I also had anxiety about being sober too about being a drug addict or alcoholic.

Andy Silvagni: That’s the stigma.

Dan Brody: That’s scum on the-

Andy Silvagni: The homeless guy under the bridge. Yeah, yeah.

Dan Brody: That’s not me. I’m going to work. I’m going to the gym at 6:00 AM.

Andy Silvagni: I get that stigma. Excuse my language, it’s just a horse-shit stigma. But that’s where our brains go kind of deal.

Stepping Toward Addiction Treatment

Dan Brody: And so, progressed, my parents wanted me to go to treatment and I finally said, okay. So, I say, “Okay, fine.” And I go to this treatment center in Minnesota and I make a deal with them. I tell them like, “I’m only going for you. I just want to let you know this is not for me. This is for you. And I’m only going for detox. That’s it. But I’m going, but I’m going.”

Andy Silvagni: Why that time? What was different about you saying, “Hey, I’ll go to Minnesota?” What was different when your parents approach to you? What was different internally in your life that say … Was there a sliver of, “Hey, maybe everyone’s right about me?” What was going on there?

Dan Brody: I think at that point, there were relationships that I ruined and there was a small, I noticed a little bit of what my actions were causing. So, it wasn’t like I was a bad guy or it wasn’t like I’m a drug addict or alcoholic yet. But I had kind of noticed some of the impact I was making on friends and family. And so, I thought in my head, I’m mentally tough enough. So, to get my parents off my back, I’ll do this for them. I’m the bigger person here. I’m doing this for them. And so, it gave me the opportunity to get the upper hand. I’m a selfish fuck.

Andy Silvagni: And manipulating, too.

Dan Brody: Yeah.

Andy Silvagni: Look, mom, look what I’m doing. Keeping looking.

Dan Brody: And it’s in my head too, it was like a game. I know if I go, I have the opportunity to come back and pick up again. And I think it’s important too, I want to get into why APN and I will in a second. But for people listening, I wasn’t stealing from drug dealers. I wasn’t hustling on the street. I was working a very corporate job from 22 to 30 years old. I was like, if you would’ve saw me, whether it be a suit on the street, these are focused. I was meeting with clients. I was doing all the right things at that point. And that’s not true. I wasn’t doing all the right things at that point, but it looked like I was.

Andy Silvagni: It’s a house of cards.

Dan Brody: This is someone that comes up. It’s just someone that looks normal. And that was the issue I had, because I looked normal. I shouldn’t be characterized or I shouldn’t admit I’m a drug addict because look at the performance.

Andy Silvagni: I’m killing it. Yeah.

Dan Brody: And so, I went there. I did two weeks, two and a half weeks, I came back.

Andy Silvagni: Yeah. What was the timeframe between that and the APN?

Dan Brody: So, I came back and it just, nothing stuck, man. It just wasn’t for me. Again, the stigma, but also, I think a big piece of it was I wasn’t ready. I was so anxious about how I would be received in the world. How can I go on a date sober? I’m going to go on a date and say, “I don’t drink,” get out of here.

Andy Silvagni: Play a round of golf.

Dan Brody: Or it’s like, “I just love drugs. I could drink.”

Andy Silvagni: You never had problems when you’re just smoking weed.

Dan Brody: Yeah, yeah.

Andy Silvagni: All that crap that our brain tells us.

Dan Brody: So, at that point, I was still living in Manhattan and I was just like … I’d never got to, at that stint for a long period of time. I was able to keep up with a normal drinking without drugs for a few months. And so, what that do, it convinced me I wasn’t a drug addict or alcoholic.

Andy Silvagni: Look what I did. Yeah.

Getting to All Points North Lodge

Dan Brody: And I think as things progressed in my life, what did I do as a true drug addict or alcoholic, I just went back. So, I picked up drugs again, started drinking. And again, still holding a job and still doing all this stuff. And at that point, again, it resurfaced my family that I was using and whatnot. And then I said, this is times I was like, I get it. I need help. So, I ended up, I was like, because they kind of knew about the place in Hazleton. And I was like, “If I’m going to do this, I need to do it for me.” And so, I was like, “I’m going to pick the place.”

And so, it was funny. I remember looking online, I remember for whatever reason, sometimes when doing the admissions process, your insurance, if you wait a little bit of time and get sober without any help or support, insurance won’t cover you. And so, I was playing some mind games delay a few days, so I didn’t have to go back. But ultimately, I found APN. And so, I went to APN. This was right during COVID. And I would say, looking back on my mindset, I was halfway there. I admitted to myself I had a problem. I wasn’t fully ready to commit to a life of sobriety. But I would say that I took a first step in saying, my life is unmanageable.

Andy Silvagni: My life isn’t going the direction that we drew it up.

Dan Brody: Because it started to affect work. I wasn’t killing it. And it was also played a part in COVID too. It was just depressing being in Manhattan-

Andy Silvagni: Alone.

Dan Brody: … and nothing to do and alone. So, I just wasn’t myself and I needed the fixes. So, I went there, I came to APN.

Andy Silvagni: And first of all, to take that step too internally by myself is like, listen, that’s a huge deal. You know what I mean. We’re sober sitting here and we’re the lucky ones. A lot of people don’t find an APN in any other rehab. They don’t find a 12-step program. And there’s people out there just struggling every day without this. So, thank god that you were able to look internally and say, “Hey, shit, I got to figure this out.”

Dan Brody: Yeah. I would say for sure, the story’s not over yet though, so I’m sorry for-

Andy Silvagni: Don’t do that. Don’t do that.

Dan Brody: But for me, not for anyone else.

Andy Silvagni: The journey continues.

Dan Brody: And so, I go to APN and I was wowed, because I do think that for the listeners that don’t know about APN, you could talk about treatment centers that they have nice beds, rooms, media centers, good cooking, a pool. But I think the big piece about APN for me and what it provided was is just like you walk into the doors and you just feel comfortable. You’re not in an itch to get the fuck out.

Andy Silvagni: Yeah, yeah, which is huge.

Dan Brody: So, I was comfortable right off the bat. And so, during that student at APN, I was starting to drink the Kool-Aid. I was like, okay, I’m working with my therapist and I’ll get to him in a second, but I’m seeing the stars are lining. I guess I have a problem, whatever. And so, I’m like, all right, how am I doing, blah blah? And I’m like, okay, I can see this life. And keep in mind, I still had a big social life back in New York. I didn’t burn bridges. My friends kind of realized that drugs were kind of my best friend at that point. But I have great friends.

Andy Silvagni: Still have good relationships.

Dan Brody: I have very good friends at home. And so, they were all supportive. So, no one threw me to the curb. My family didn’t throw me to the curb. And so, I knew that. And as a very social person, I wanted to go back and reconnect with them. But still, I didn’t necessarily tell everyone what was going on that I was here, but it was still whatever. So, some unfortunate situations happened and I had to leave APN after three weeks. But I felt like I was like, okay. And then-

Relapse After Addiction Treatment

Andy Silvagni: Learned a lot.

Dan Brody: I learned a lot. And I was like, all right, I’m going to be sober, but I’m going to be sober in my old life.

Andy Silvagni: On my terms. Yeah.

Dan Brody: I’m going to go back. And when friends go to dinner, I’m going to go.

Andy Silvagni: Club soda.

Dan Brody: I could skip a meeting and just make sure I’m present at a birthday dinner or my friends are going to celebrate whatever in the Hamptons. I can go to the Hamptons. Or I remember going to Aspen one time during this time.

Andy Silvagni: And again, I’m no therapist, but we call this the ego. Yeah. I hear you.

Dan Brody: And I actually stayed sober that entire weekend in Aspen. But it was a white-knuckling. People refer to white-knuckling as not having a program, whether it be like AA or NA or any type of spiritual program. It was Dan Brody’s program. And I did what I thought was the best move. Whatever genius idea came up in my brain, I was like, that’s perfect for my sobriety. I’m going to put myself in the shittiest positions ever. So, as it progressed, I white-knuckled. I’d go to AA meetings. This was during COVID and the camera would be off. So, I called my sponsor and he’d go to a meeting today. I was like, yup, 7:00 AM I was there. Meanwhile, I was sitting on my bed.

Andy Silvagni: Hiding.

Dan Brody: He was like, “Oh, who spoke today?” I always wrote down the person who spoke.

Andy Silvagni: It’s the effort into lying. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dan Brody: So, during that process, the addiction was still there, but I just wasn’t using drugs. I wasn’t helping myself. And fortunately, my therapist here, Dustin from APN, was willing to see me over telehealth. So, I still had that connection. And I think it was funny, I was honest in those conversations, but I think I was honest about the life that I wanted, not the life I was living. And so, he obviously saw right through me.

Enough Is Enough

And so, things progressed and obviously I relapsed and I found myself in the hospital. And I think when people talk about when it was enough, enough. And I woke up in a hospital. This was over Memorial Day. So, I’ll give you the full story. It’s actually pretty humiliating but whatever. Memorial Day weekend, I go home to my parents’ house. My whole immediate family is coming in and I’m like, “Oh, I’ll come in on a Thursday.” And then I’ll play golf with my dad Friday before everyone gets there. The plan was there, blah, blah, blah. I’m getting my fix Thursday, end up having to go to the hospital Thursday night.

Friday, I wake up, no one’s there. And I’m like, fuck. And I remembered what happened but I know what got to, it wasn’t like a blackout. And I remember my brother coming in and after I woke up, he looked at me, and he had two years sober at this point. So, he understood. He didn’t judge me. And none of my family judged me because they got it.

Andy Silvagni: Which is huge. Yeah.

Dan Brody: So, he looked at me and I was a little ashamed, but I could see him. He was like, “You really smoked it to the brim, man.” And I was just like, huh. So, he was there, checked on me. He left. My parents came in that night. And again, with my family, I have a very, very loving mother. She supported me no matter what, and almost to a fault, wanted to be my nurse to keep me sober. And you just can’t do that in these type of relationships. But my dad, he knew I needed one last-

Andy Silvagni: He was in recovery. Yeah. He knew.

Dan Brody: He knew I needed one last run. So, he wasn’t disappointed. And no one was really disappointed. But my dad almost expected it. He was just hoping that I lived through it. And so, they leave. And at this point, your ego is still there because your family, after everything you did, you just ruined a weekend with your family. I had a new niece at that time and blah, blah, blah, that everyone was looking forward to this weekend. And selfish me ruined it because I needed to get high. So, then the next day happens and I’m like, okay, my parents will be here, my brother, someone will stop by to see how I’m doing. No one.

Andy Silvagni: Nobody.

Dan Brody: And it’s not like I wasn’t loved, and I don’t even know if they did this on purpose or not. Maybe they were just busy at home. But in reality, this was the turning point for me. I woke up at in that hospital bed-

Andy Silvagni: All alone.

Dan Brody: All alone. And I was like, I have two choices in life right now. What I’m doing right now is it’s like jails, institutions.

Andy Silvagni: Not working,

Dan Brody: Right?

Andy Silvagni: Yeah.

Dan Brody: Or death.

“I Have a Problem and I Need Help.”

And so, I can go down that avenue and it’s playing with fire. It’s like, all right, is it a day? Is it a week? Is it a month? Is it a year? What’s next? Or it’s like I can get my life together. And the first step of that is admitting that I have a problem and I need help.

Andy Silvagni: And you can’t do it by yourself.

Dan Brody: And I can’t do it by myself and asking for help. So, I went home. The hospital said, “You could leave.” So, I called home and I looked at my parents in the face and I’m like, “Listen, I want to apologize for my actions. Obviously, this apology means nothing after what I’ve done. But give me a day or two just to get my shit in order.” And I didn’t mean that as procrastinating. I just needed to get my emotions in check and identify what was my next move. Because a lot of the things that I did in the past, I did for other people.

And I finally realized that whatever decision I make, I need to make with passion and all my heart, and it needs to come from within me. Because if I don’t, then I’m just going to let myself down, and that’s the worst. I can go live a life and let people down because I know they’ll always come back to me. But if I let myself down, that’s the worst.

Andy Silvagni: They say, you got to make it in your innermost self. You know what I mean? Between you and the mirror.

Dan Brody: And so, I call APN up and texting Dustin and he’s like, “Dude, just call the admissions department.”

Andy Silvagni: It’s Sunday night at midnight you’re texting us.

Dan Brody: It’s over Memorial Day. He’s enjoying time with his family. I’m hitting him up. And he’s like, “Dude, you’ll get in.” So, I’m like, all right. So, I ended up getting in. And I remember, it’s tough. I’m going back to the same rehab.

Andy Silvagni: Very humbling.

Dan Brody: Same staff. And I think that was my first experience of being surrounded by other individuals in recovery that have something that related to my experience. And they were so warm and happy I was back. They were like, “Listen, it could have been a lot worse. You’re here. You’re getting the help you need. You just took a huge first step here. Welcome back.” And they meant it genuinely, not welcome back, asshole.

Andy Silvagni: No, I get it.

Dan Brody: But literally, “We’re so happy you’re back. Let’s do it this time.” And when I walked into those doors, it brought me back to football, walking into the field on Friday nights. It’s like, it’s go time.

Andy Silvagni: It’s time.

Dan Brody: It’s now or never. What are you going to do with the ball? So, I remember, and I know you have a question, but I want to get to this point. I remember-

Andy Silvagni: Mental read. You saw my wheels turning.

Dan Brody: And I remember, so I had worked with Dustin before. We always fuck with each other or I fuck with him he just shadowed me, whatever. We got along. And I get there, I walk into his room and I’m like, “Listen, thank you for setting up.” He’s like, “No problem.” He’s like, “Listen, before we get started and before we begin this work, you have to promise me three things.” And I literally said, I was like, “Absolutely.”

Andy Silvagni: I’ll do anything.

Dan Brody: I was like, “I trust you with all my heart. Name it and let’s do it.” So, he goes, “You’re staying here longer than 30 days.” I’m like, “Done. Easy.”

Andy Silvagni: Easy, next.

Dan Brody: He’s like, “You’re going to follow all the rules.” And I was just like, “Well, what does that include?” He’s like, “You’re going to follow all the rules.”

Andy Silvagni: All meaning all.

Dan Brody: He’s like, “Listen, you’re not some big shot here. If they say jump, you’re going to say how high. When they eat breakfast at 8:00, you’re going to be there at 8:00. Community meeting on Thursday morning, you’re going to be there. I don’t care if it’s not mandatory.” I said “Okay.” And the final one, he was like, “And you’re going to sober living when you leave.”

Andy Silvagni: So important.

Dan Brody: And so, at that point, I didn’t really know what sober living was. And this is my first day back at treatment after I relapsed. So, I’m like, “Well, do we have to plan that now? I trust you, but do I need to commit right now?” And he was like, “Yes.” And I was like, “Well, why don’t we table this conversation?” And he’s like, “Well, why don’t we table this conversation to right now?” And he was like, “Listen, I know who you are. I’ve worked with you long enough. I’m not sending you to a shitty rundown house in the middle of nowhere. We’re going to figure out a location that’s a good fit for you. You’re going to be in a comfortable environment where you could thrive, but you just have to be willing. The same way you were willing to come here. You have to be willing to do that.”

Andy Silvagni: So important, willingness.

Dan Brody: And again, let me know what sober living was.

Andy Silvagni: Sure.

Dan Brody: But I was like, “Okay.” And after that conversation, you talk about surrender. I let it out. At APN, whether it’d been in the process groups, whether my one-on-ones with Dustin, whether it’d be with afternoon groups, whether it’d be just being honest and my authentic self with my peers and just doing the right thing. It wasn’t like, “Oh, I can get away with this by skipping this group, so I’m going to do it just to go take a nap.” No, I went to the group because that was the right thing to do. I wasn’t like, “Oh, I’m going to stay in the media room to hang out with people because those are the guys or girls who I fuck with here to hang out.” No. Lights are out at 12:00. I’m going to be in my room at 11:30.

What I Learned From Addiction Treatment

Andy Silvagni: Well, so I was going to ask you two questions. I was going to have to ask you about what staff member made a big impact? But you already answered that.

Dan Brody: Well, there’s more about him.

Andy Silvagni: Sure. Well, we’ll get to it. We’re not stopping you. But the second thing I was going to say is, well, what’s something that you might have learned through your process? But I think you just described willingness. And willingness is such, I have to be willing my whole life to look at every situation and say, “Hey, there might be a different way to do this. It might not be a better way, but as long as I’m willing to look at stuff from different points of view.” Because if I’m like, “No, this is the only way to change a tire.” It’s like, “Well, hey buddy, there might be a different way.” But if I’m like, “Nope,” that means I’m closed off and that’s all ego.

And for me as an alcoholic and an addict, the ego is going to drive me. It’s going to drive me right into the ground. So, I love the fact that you talked about willingness as much as you did, but get back to your stay. What were some other things that you picked up on?

Dan Brody: And I mentioned this before, I felt comfortable at APN, and this is an APN podcast. But I’m not here to promote the treatment. It’s whatever works for that individual. And what I needed was a comfortable environment. And I was fortunate enough, where Dustin, who I related to and I could sit there and take punches left and right, because that’s what I needed.

Andy Silvagni: The therapeutic punches.

Dan Brody: Listen, I don’t mind saying it, he didn’t hit me, but-

Andy Silvagni: But he was honest with you.

Dan Brody: But I needed to get knocked down. I had a huge ego like blah, blah, blah. I was very fortunate as a kid. I wasn’t given everything in life, but it wasn’t like I was struggling. And I needed that ego to shrink. I needed to get knocked down. And I think what Dustin did specifically was he gave me, number one, we got to the bare bones. And people talk about identifying what’s that why, why did you use drugs? And I think that number one, I just liked getting up. So, that was the one thing too.

But obviously, I didn’t have any serious traumas or whatnot. I just enjoyed being a chameleon. I enjoyed switching up my personalities based off of the crowd I was with because that thought made me look cooler. Oh, awesome. I’m going to go to the club Saturday night, I got a blow coke with these guys. Oh, I want to watch football on Sunday, I’m going to take this perc.

Andy Silvagni: Chameleon. Yeah, absolutely.

Dan Brody: So, whatever it was. And I think working with Dustin, it just got very real. I walked in every time I sat in the chair with him, I opened my ears for the first time. I would talk about whatever in the conversation, but I listened to his feedback. And what was amazing about Dustin is that how I related to him is that I trusted him because I knew, and this is just for me, but he went through it himself.

And so, when he would open up and he didn’t open up about his entire story, but snippet where it was a perfect amount of information that I needed to be like, “Wow, this dude’s inspiring. He went through all this journey. Now, he’s an incredible therapist working with me.” And so, right off the bat, once I gain that respect almost, and it sounds like fucked up to say, but I was in. I was in like if he said, again, “Jump,” I was ready to be like, “How high?”

Andy Silvagni: Willingness.

Dan Brody: And I said this before I left in front of the whole community, he changed my life. And I think it was like we were both athletes. We both came from good families.

Andy Silvagni: Isn’t it funny though, the more he gives you like, “Hey, do this, this, and this.” And you’re like, you didn’t want do it, but you do it. It’s like, “Hey, I’m trusting him.” And the more you trust him, that “Hey, all of a sudden, I respect him a little more and then I trust him and he’s given me more stuff.” And it’s almost like a wheel. And then what does that get to? It’s almost like this, “Hey, I love that dude. He’s my guy.”

Dan Brody: For sure. I think that that’s the athlete inside of me. I enjoy being pushed. I enjoy people holding me accountable and it motivates me. And I will always carry that motivation internally regardless of what I’m doing. But what I was doing is, my goal was to get the help I need, lay the foundation at APN so that when I leave here, I have the tools necessary where I could be successful. And my first goal is to stay sober.

And so, I think at APN, he helped me do that, man. It was crazy. And I said, relatable, both athletes, good families, this, that, and drugs. And it’s like, all right, this is motivating. So, I listen, and it wasn’t just with Dustin, it was with peers or two. We had some RAs that I related to that were good dudes.

Finally Letting Go

And so, somewhat my stay at APN, I know this was a longwinded answer, but it changed my life. And it wasn’t just because of it being a nice facility. It was like, it’s funny, again, I go to AA and not everyone goes to AA, but they always talk about if you do the right things, let go, let God. And I let go finally.

I always needed to be calculated. I always needed to control every situation. And I let go. And I was like, “Whatever tomorrow brings, it’ll bring, but I’m going to make sure I’m doing all the right things and putting myself in all the right places and then God will take care of that.”

Andy Silvagni: The results are not in my hands.

Dan Brody: And I’m not a huge God guy.

Andy Silvagni: No, I get it.

Dan Brody: Right. I don’t sit here and it’s funny back, and this is a side note, but as a kid, you pray to God only for the good things. “Please God, let my mom give me this present. Please God, let’s win this game.”

Andy Silvagni: Yeah, yeah.

Dan Brody: And now I think about God or it’s like a god of my understanding, it’s like, just give me the opportunity to, don’t give it to me, but give me the opportunity to seize it. And so, that’s why I think about it. And so, God gave me the opportunity to … God put me in a room with Dustin where he knew that I could relate to this dude. And he was like, “Okay, now it’s your opportunity to make the most of it. You can fuck it up and leave.” But at that point, I was willing enough to say, my thoughts got me here twice.

Andy Silvagni: You’re thinking is not you’re thinking, pal.

Dan Brody: So, it’s like, all right, let someone else do the thinking for me.

Andy Silvagni: Yeah, yeah. Willingness. I’m sorry I keep coming back to it, but that’s what it is again.

Dan Brody: And I think also during that time, Dustin would throw, he’s a super smart woody guy, which is funny, but also annoying, because he’s always right somehow.

Andy Silvagni: Yeah. I get it.

Dan Brody: And so, he said something to me one time, and I looked at sobriety as a shitty time, like depressing. I lived the whole life of partying and always surrounded by drugs, alcohol or living in not responsible or accountable. And he looked at me, he’s like, “Yo, dude.” He probably didn’t say, “Yo dude,” but he’s like-

Andy Silvagni: Hey pal.

Dan Brody: I don’t think he’s a pal, it’s a you thing. But he was like…

Andy Silvagni: He should.

Dan Brody: He was like, “Sobriety can be fun, you know.” And I was like, “Hmm, really?”

Andy Silvagni: Interesting.

Dan Brody: And he was just like, “When you were playing sports, were you having fun? When you lace up your spikes to go and play football, did you enjoy that?” I said, “Yeah.” And he said, “Were you fucked up?” And I said, “No.” So, he’s like, “So, why can’t you find another thing that you enjoy doing without being fucked up. And think about how much more you will enjoy it?” He was like, “Think about all what you were doing and how successful you were in the world while getting fucked up. Think about how more successful you’ll be. Think about the relationships that you have now and how much better those relationships will be.”

Andy Silvagni: You’ll be present.

Dan Brody: And I think leaving APN, so I left APN with weight off my shoulders. I was leaving there as a new person.

Andy Silvagni: Floating.

Dan Brody: And I wouldn’t say that I was floating like I was on cloud nine. But I would say I had confidence back on myself. And I wasn’t overly confident, but I was just, I was okay with accepting I was a drug addict and accepting to change my life. And I quit my job in New York. And now-

Moving Forward After Addiction Treatment

Andy Silvagni: Yeah. Let’s get into that. You left APN, great stay, great experience. Now moving forward, like A, how did it go, and B, what did you take from APN and you’re applying in your life today to get you where you’re at now?

Dan Brody: Yeah. I think that’s a great question, Andy.

Andy Silvagni: You’re welcome.

Dan Brody: Kind of set you off for that one.

Andy Silvagni: Hey, pal. You throw softballs, I’ll knock them out all day. You know what I mean?

Dan Brody: No. So, going back to the promise I made to Dustin. He was like, he got with sober living. So, let’s just go back to an old Dan thought. And this is what I thought was like, “I’m 33 years old, successful, sociable, and you’re putting me in sober living, me I get the fuck out of here.” But I swallowed it. So, it was funny, towards last week, I was trying to figure out where to go.

I actually linked up with Noah, the CEO here at APN, and he was asking me to get my next steps about what I was doing. And I was like, “You know what? Dustin, I thought sober living was best. I’m just trying to figure out what’s me.” I was like, “I can’t go back to New York. New York is just not for me.” And that was a tough decision, but my family but is there and all my friends were there, but I knew that I’d made that mistake before.

Andy Silvagni: And listen, the geographical cure isn’t the cure, but in the beginning, it could be so helpful to get a new fresh start. You know what I mean? Just completely get away for a while and allow you to get present and get your feet on the ground where you’re at.

Dan Brody: Yeah. I agreed. People talk about the geographic. And I don’t characterize this as a geographic. I think that I had the opportunity to make this decision I didn’t have a wife, kids. I didn’t have a job tied back to New York. So, it was more like, where could I put myself in the best place to be successful? And so, after I think Dustin and I discussed LA, Arizona, or Florida. And so, again, walking in, going back to the story with Noah and I told Noah. He’s like, “All right, I’m going to email you a sober living in Malibu. They have an IOP and you’ll do Dustin’s OP group.”

Andy Silvagni: Perfect.

Dan Brody: I was like, “Thanks, man.” And I think, not to talk about APN more, but that’s the CEO of the company. Going up to a client that he doesn’t know well, ask me how I’m doing. I opened up a little bit and he was there.

Andy Silvagni: He’s got resources.

Dan Brody: And it was him. He knew about it and he told me directly. And so, again, I was like, “All right, I’m going to LA.” I go to LA, nothing, don’t know anyone. And yeah, dude, it was fucking wild. Again, going back to my age, I was 33 years old. I was a successful dude. And now I’m moving to LA with no friends, starting my life.

Andy Silvagni: It’s a leap of faith. Yeah. No, I get it.

Dan Brody: It was wild. So, I go to the sober living. I go to IOP and I’m doing Dustin’s group. And I knew what I needed to do. And what I needed to do was ask for help and not be embarrassed about what I just went through. It’s like I’m still a fucking good dude. I still have a great family that loves me. I never cheated on a girlfriend. I never did something outrageous where I got arrested for something. Deep down, I have a great heart. I care about people. Just, an addiction took over. So, I was like, let’s just not remove that addiction, but let’s be honest, let’s be transparent, let’s be willing, and let’s do the right things.

Life in Sober Living

So, it was fucking humbling as shit. But I remember I got there on a Thursday.

Andy Silvagni: How many guys were in the halfway?

Dan Brody: It wasn’t a lot, dude.

Andy Silvagni: Come on. You can tell us.

Dan Brody: It was a pretty shitty house.

Andy Silvagni: Like five, six, what you got?

Dan Brody: The halfway, it was like a Malibu farmhouse. So, I thought it’d be super bougie. And I was like, I deserve that. And I was fortunate. My parents hooked me up a little bit.

Andy Silvagni: Helped you.

Dan Brody: Which I’m grateful for.

Andy Silvagni: Absolutely.

Dan Brody: And I think I would do that for my kid looking back too. I hope I would. But I remember it was just a bad mistake, because that ego took over that decision a little bit, because I needed to be in Malibu. And the house sucked. It was a cool house, but I was with four, it was male and female. It was maybe four other people. It was just in the middle of nowhere in the Malibu Hills, far as fuck, whatever.

But I remember I had met Jeremy, who’s a VP here at APN too, and he gave me his number. He’s like, “Hey, I live out in LA if you need anything.” So, again, me, I didn’t know him well. And I didn’t know anyone in recovery. So, I hit him up and I was like, “Hey, do you know anyone in that I can go to a meeting with?” And that was my first step of asking for help. Because I didn’t know, but I knew I needed to hit a meeting.

Andy Silvagni: And it’s funny because they talk about how much that phone weighs and, “Hey, just make a call.” And it’s like, that phone weighs a thousand pounds at that point in time.

Dan Brody: So, I kind of speed up everything. But what was unique is that Jeremy ended up hooking me up with someone in Malibu. And I went to a meeting that my first night with some kids from the house, second house. I met up with that kid. He took me to a meeting. We went to dinner after. He ended up introducing to my sponsor out there, still my sponsor today.

Andy Silvagni: But look, the phone call to Jeremy, boom.

Dan Brody: And that was embarrassing. I’m 33 years old. “Hey man-“

Andy Silvagni: Yeah, I know.

Dan Brody: “… can you introduce me to someone, blah, blah, blah.” And also going into the rooms too. For any listeners that have done it, I know as a newcomer, you’re going to a meeting like, “Hey, I have at that point 60 days.” And then it’s like, “Hey Andy, could I get your phone number?” And to joke about it with my therapist there. Yeah. I went on four man dates. Fuck dude. This is what my life’s turned into? And it’s funny now to look on it, but that’s what I was doing. I was literally, it was going back into the first days of college, not knowing anyone and having to start over. And the pedestal I put myself on, I was just like fucking A. This is what I’m doing with my life now. I got to go into these AA meetings and make friends.

Andy Silvagni: That high pedestal.

Dan Brody: I’d come back and be like, “All right, no friends there.”

Andy Silvagni: Yeah, yeah. You grinded. You grinded.

Dan Brody: It was going back to the motivation and the hustle that I always had. I’m going to get this. I’m going to do this. I’m not giving up. I could do this. Everyone and they talk about an AA, it’s like everyone has done this before, so why the fuck am I different? So, long story short, sober living was very crucial for me. I ended up switching sober livings down to a place in Santa Monica. Shout out Spear Recovery.

Andy Silvagni: Shout out.

Dan Brody: And great dudes. And they taught me to be just a good fucking dude in recovery.

Andy Silvagni: Yeah, that’s awesome.

Dan Brody: You don’t need to be wearing a fucking AA sweatshirt, but do the right thing when no one’s looking.

Andy Silvagni: Absolutely.

Dan Brody: Rico Bosco.

Andy Silvagni: Yeah. No, I get it. I get it. Integrity’s a crazy thing. Yeah. No, I understand.

Dan Brody: And just be honest. So, I ended up doing that and two of my closest friends in LA now. But I continued to push myself and going to meetings and I was still going to IOP, blah, blah, blah. And long story short, I ended up meeting a great crew of dudes in LA, some of my best friends. And it’s funny is that I always think about this, is that they were in the same position I was. They were transplants from this area in the states, this area. We all landed in LA and we all found each other. And there would be dudes that if I met in high school, in college, after college in the city I’d be boys with. I just happened to meet them in LA.

Andy Silvagni: And they’re sober.

Finding Authenticity in Sobriety

Dan Brody: And so, I think kind of wrapping up, it’s like, what did I do after? It’s number one, I’m living a sober life. And I don’t to use the word “sober life”, but I’m living a life that is just based off honesty and thoughtfulness. The relationships, I remember making amends to all my family and friends. And it’s like I didn’t kill anyone. And I never realized the impact I had on them. I’d always say, “I’m putting the drugs in my body. Why are you so pissed off? Get the fuck out of here.” And then I look back and how big of god forbid someone, they lost a son or brother, how big that impacted them?

And so, making those amends and talking through how selfish I was. And now it’s like, I speak to my mom and whether it be every day, every other day, it’s like, I’m honest. The relationship I have with my dad now, it’s crazy. And now it’s like I have the opportunity to switch my career to work in recovery. And it’s like, yes, working here is not my program, but I still get to be part of this, this part of this journey. And I get to help provide any level of support to individuals that need it.

And going back to one of the original things I said earlier, it was like, I hope that whatever I said, if there’s one thing I said here could help them, because I truly mean that. I understand how valuable it is after going to meetings, meetings, meeting other people in recovery, whether it be mental health or substance abuse, them having a small piece of an experience they had or a thought or something that changed me. I could sit in different meetings and learn from them.

And so, it’s like I want to give back. And it’s fortunately, I get to give back and work for a place that changed my life. And I could be part of that for someone else’s journey. And again, I have my own program outside, but the relationships I have now are just, they’re honest. I’m not hiding.

Andy Silvagni: Being authentic.

Dan Brody: Yeah. And I think my dad always talked about he’s like, he’d always be like, “How light do you feel, how light do you feel?” And I would be like, “Dude, shut the fuck up, man.” But I get it now. And again, going back, he’s 18 years sober. This dude, and this is someone that I never realized how much I looked up to him until over the last year. He’s successful, owned his own business, got depressed, sold the business, and got sober. At 55 years old, he started a brand new career, 55 years old, dude. And he was successful before. And he got depressed, blah, blah, blah. He’s in recovery now at 55 years old. People are starting new careers at 22. He started at 55. And now, he’s 65 or whatever he was. So, I did the math there now, but he’s 65 now. So, maybe whatever it was.

Andy Silvagni: Whatever. Yeah. Maybe he’s 52.

Dan Brody: But he is 18 years sober.

Andy Silvagni: The math part for me and you would be the hard part.

Dan Brody: And 65. But the dude is the most successful he’s ever been, which is obviously what I see. But now what I see is he’s the happiest.

Andy Silvagni: I’m sure.

Dan Brody: He goes to sleep at 7:30. He wakes up at 4:00 AM. He goes to yoga. He goes to the gym. He works his ass off. He comes home with my mom and dinner at 5:00. And I’m just like, “Holy shit.” Literally, as a kid, we belong to the country clubs. He had a nice car. Now he looks at those and I always thought he needs to have. And he’s like, “When you play golf, you should appreciate it. You don’t play golf because you deserve to play golf. You play it because you appreciate it.”

And I look back on that and every day I spend time and talk to him, it’s like I grow to be more like him where it’s like, “I don’t care about all this cool shit. I don’t need to be driving around in a BMW or Mercedes.” It’s like, “I want to live a happy life. I want to be content when I go to sleep.”

Andy Silvagni: How I would describe that is, in the beginning, you talked about success being the job and the money and the girl. And now success is something completely different.

Dan Brody: Dude, it’s crazy. And I’m happy.

Andy Silvagni: And it’s beautiful. It’s beautiful, it really is.

Dan Brody: It is. When I was getting an apartment in LA, I didn’t need to live in this Florida apartment with the elevator or the pool.

Andy Silvagni: Four thousand square foot.

Dan Brody: Yeah. I was cool with whatever. And just the funny part is, is that I look at my life now. I’m going to sleep at 8:30. I’m waking up at 5:00 AM. To go out to dinner, I’m wearing a hoodie and jeans, a hat. I’m just turning into my dad. And the funny part is, is that excites me. And it’s not because of the money he makes or what he does in his life, obviously a piece of it. But it’s like he is just fucking happy and he’s content with it.

Andy Silvagni: Content.

Dan Brody: And listen, I think, and he always tells me that it’s hard work and shit, but that’s what motivates me. And that’s what I hope to do to others. I’m fortunate I have that in my immediate family. And my brother motivates me too. He’s sober. I have a sister-in-law who’s 10 years sober. My mom just doesn’t drink. She’s like, ignore me. And it’s like fucking weird.

Andy Silvagni: Just a sweetheart probably.

Dan Brody: Just had to deal with-

Andy Silvagni: Dealing with you.

Dan Brody: … three boys in recovery and me.

Andy Silvagni: She’s an angel.

Dan Brody: God bless her. I love her. And I have a sister too that had to deal with the same thing. But I look at my dad and he’s like, you could talk about celebrities that got sober and do this and have to still act. Or you could talk about an NFL- But I look like a normal fucking dude that lives a normal life now and it’s just fucking happy.

Andy Silvagni: That’s awesome.

Dan Brody: And so, I appreciate the conversations I had with them and I appreciate the little things in life when I get to play golf, where before I thought I deserve to play golf. Where it’s like going after dinner now. That was in New York was like, oh, I should be going out dinner out three nights a week. I should be partying. Isn’t that what I’m supposed to be doing?

And now it’s like, I don’t need to do that shit. And it’s like when I go out for on a Friday night or Saturday, it’s like I appreciate this. Or on a vacation, I don’t need to be sitting on the beach up fucked up. And it’s like I’m present and everyone. The relationships I have now, I wouldn’t say I’m so honest where I take it to fault. But I don’t lie. It’s like I’m not running around stashing my pockets.

Andy Silvagni: I get it. You don’t have to remember what you told somebody, “Hey, what lie did I tell them?” And I think, again, this wraps up into the coolest part of this job is seeing these stories. And in recovery, it’s the greatest lost and found around people come in broken and dark and dreary and they’re lost. And then boom, recovery, they’re found and their lives are reborn and they have this relationship with their families and their parents and it’s beautiful.

Recovery x APN

So, Dan, I mean, again, we appreciate you being open and honest with us here and well, I’m pumped to cohost this whole show with you. And do you have anything else that?

Dan Brody: No. Listen, I think this was a unique episode

Andy Silvagni: It’s so unique.

Dan Brody: … where it’s like, typically what we’ll be doing is an alumni coming in. You and I will be doing the hosting together, answering questions. But I think it was important for me as an alumni, as a host, to just open up and explain who I was, and for people to get familiar with it. And I think that this is just the beginning of my journey. And it’s like I have the opportunity to be present in my program in LA with the relationship I have, the family I have. But also now having this platform with you, it’s endless of what we could do with listeners.

And again, I’m not here to change anyone’s mind about being sober or not. I’m just here to share experience and if it helps anyone, amazing. And I think we’re here to help. APN alumni or not. It’s obviously, we’re geared towards, we work for APN and we want to help the clients. But if anyone needs to talk, if they listen right, we’ll provide contact information or whatever.

Andy Silvagni: At all times.

Dan Brody: And I think that’s what, instead of getting off on making a big sell, when I get a call about work, it’s something I could provide them with AA meetings. I’m like, “Chill, I just help this person.” That makes me happy. And so, yeah, I think in closing, I appreciate the hard-hitting questions.

Andy Silvagni: No. That’s why I’m here, man.

Dan Brody: And I’m looking forward to speaking to other alumni and hearing their experience. Because it’s going to be totally different.

Andy Silvagni: Absolutely, absolutely. All right. Well hey, episode down, we get an episode down. And that’s a good thing that we’re fired up.

Dan Brody: Yeah. And we’re looking forward to doing more episodes and getting these out to you, guys.

Andy Silvagni: Absolutely. If you go to pod@APNLodge-

Dan Brody: Dude, that’s the email.

Andy Silvagni: I’m reading that. Whatever’s there.

Dan Brody: No.

Andy Silvagni: If you smash the like button.

Dan Brody: All right. On this sign, it says

Andy Silvagni: I was going to read both of them.

Dan Brody: That’s where you could find us. And if you want to contact us, now you could say it.

Andy Silvagni: Hey, if you want to find us in this podcast, we’re at And if you have any questions, [email protected].

Dan Brody: Very good. And yeah, like and subscribe.

Andy Silvagni: I will not say like and smash. I won’t do it. Thanks guys.